I am saddened and disappointed to acknowledge that my country Singapore voted “Yes with Comments” to the broken OOXML proposal. This inspite of a strong “No with Comments” recommendation from the IETC (the XML TC).
The voting at the council received exactly 2/3s majority.
M$’ influence is substantial. Looks like someone’s KPI has been met, congratulations.
2/3s is not enough
Isnt 2/3rds not enough? Usually the criteria is 67% which means just one more than 2/3rds! This is certainly interesting news, as Singapore’s comments back in February were not sufficiently addressed by Ecma over the 5 months period.
yk.
Re: 2/3s is not enough
The numbers turned out to be just past 67%. 2/3s is the closest fraction.
There are comments with the yes vote and these were the comments that would have gone with the No with Comments.
Re: 2/3s is not enough
Do they really know the rules?
http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-18341/iso-confirms-that-the-vendor-lied-to-you
In which Conditional approval should be submitted as a disapproval vote.
So they all do agreed that if technical comments might not be resolved, it’s alright to go with it?
Re: 2/3s is not enough
It was made amply clear to all the council members about the recommendation that Disapprove with comments is the RIGHT one and that iff the comments are addressesed satisfactorily, then we have the option to switch Disapprove to Approve.
It was also made clear that the XML TC had spent considerable effort and time to assess the proposal and it was their considered technical opinion that the vote should be Disapprove with COmments.
While I would not doubt the integrity of the council members, I am disappointed that they were swayed by their respective organizations who were swayed by flawed sentiment.
Congratulations!
Congratulations Singapore!
Re: Congratulations!
The bloke who posted from 218-186-13-2.cache.maxonline.com.sg congratulating Singapore for capitulating to M$ is really missing the point. Assuming that the person so posting is not a troll or a M$ symphatiser, then all I say say is thanks! Your comments are most welcome.
Not too Surprised
I am not too surprised by the Votes as the news from public domain was that Singapore would either abstain or provide a Yes with Comments. Though the votes in Singapore are out it is too early to rejoice or be disappointed at the votes as the 2/3rd votes are required worldwide. As a Singaporean I am happy for the reason here in Singapore there was no incident of scandals or buying of OOXML votes.
What I am surprised and disappointed is that world wide many who Voted Yes with Comments were unaware that the result would essentially be a Yes as reported in http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-18341/iso-confirms-that-the-vendor-lied-to-you . Disapproval with comments is the only meaningful method to get comments considered. And even after the worldwide votes are in …there will be a more news on this front as Rob Weir from IBM will be collecting evidences of cases of misinformation. It appears that we will hear more in the days to come.
Re: Not too Surprised
As I have indicated in http://harishpillay.livejournal.com/67043.html?thread=30179#t30179, the council was amply reminded but there was counter comment as well suggesting that “ECMA has undertaken to address all comments in a Yes with Comments vote”. Humbug. But this humbug was enough to sway the vote.
Re: Not too Surprised
If ECMA can address all comments in a Yes with Comments vote, then what is BRM for?
From the wikipedia,
In the event there is not 100% support, or overwhelming disapproval, of DIS 29500 there can be a Ballot Resolution Meeting (BRM) if needed, in which comments submitted with ballot votes can be resolved.
That means if all put yes with comments, or not overwhelming disapproval, BRM will not be held to address and resolve every single issue.
Do the members know that they can still change the vote from no with comments to yes when BRM is held? they should leave it to the BRM meeting by voting no with comments which means conditional approval. they can decide later, and see the issues being addressed before they reconsider their votes.
We should listen to ISO in this standardisation process and not ECMA, because it’s an ISO process and not ECMA process. So are the people mislead by counter comment?
Re: Not too Surprised
Guidance was given by me at the meeting that was not fully accepted and countered by others. I am, but one vote.
Re: Not too Surprised
In that event are you sure that Technical Committee recommendation was negative or was it ambiguous?
Re: Not too Surprised
The TC’s report was clear and detailed. The fact that some of the council members chose not to consider it speaks volumes.
Re: Not too Surprised
And thinking ooxml might have impact on this also as information exchange is concerned.
http://www.ida.gov.sg/News%20and%20Events/20050829143504.aspx?getPagetype=20
We all know that the date issue is still not fixed. OOXML instead of cutting back on the number of type of date encodings, now allows 5 different type of normative dates.
Can you help by asking your national body to file a protest? We have to invalidate the whole thing. Also, can you find out if your national body was “bought” out by MS?
Anti OPENXML
http://www.openforumeurope.org/press-room/ofe-events/pre-announcement-openforum-europe-roundtable-on-standards-and-the-future-of-the-internet-international-conference-centre-geneva-26-february-2008.
You Rob Stutor and Andy should make sure that BRM fails. Please do what is neccessary to end monoploy. If you need help we will be happy to contribute in kind, $ or people..
I’ve been glued to BBC, CNN and all the major papers. situation inside tibet seem to be getting really bad as day goes by. i totally agree with you. no freedom, no olympics!
Thanks, John. But the reasons were not forthcoming other than to say that this is the “big picture”.
I have some close friends in Singapore and they make it quite clear to me that openess is not really a strong suit over there, unfortunately.
Regards
Bob
Rent-a-Website
Depending on what you refer to, openness is getting better. Yes, the way ITSC voted was kept secret which I think it should not be. But I am but one voice.
The role of international institutions equally becomes more and more important, and we have, in the past decade, seen a considerable amount of effort spent on the development of standards.
And by that, you mean that standards can be had *NO MATTER WHAT*? In the case of ooxml, it was vote buying by throwing monies, favours etc at people who are not normally part of this and by an organization who has proven time and again to not want to play fair.
Yes, standards have become increasingly important.
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Its School of Information “Systems” and not School of Information “Science”!
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